Combat Changes: First Impressions

Interestingly enough, as well, those very combat system changes is what I hear a lot about, and not the expansion itself. Also, what I hear is not always positive but it definitely should be.

I covered (and still do) Star Wars Galaxies when they underwent their massive changes to the combat system as it was inherently broken. As I've said countless times before, the situations of EverQuest II and Star Wars Galaxies were completely different but the reaction seems to be the same and naturally so.

This is what it comes down to: the combat system was changed for the better but the transition is difficult.

Truth be told, the transition was much more difficult in Star Wars Galaxies because the game had been out for a good two years already, compared to EverQuest II's year or so. Nevertheless, 365 days a very long time and a good portion of the population has been set in their ways.

Oh and yes this is everyone from the "God-mode players" to the soloers to the groupers and the crafters.

Personally, for instance, I'm used to playing a Ranger which, as we all know, was quite lacking before the expansion, that is to say "gimped." So I was used to competing against a stacked deck when soloing blue and heaven forbid white cons. Similarly, I have a good friend who is in a large, dominant raiding guild and he and his guild mates are going through a transition as well (and it is in this situation where it is most difficult).

So everyone is going through it and I think everyone recognizes that. But then where does all the negativity comes from?

As much as I hate to cricitize the group I not only support but am from, it is the soloers. Not every soloer mind you, but there are certain individuals who are being rather loud in their protest saying they first of all can't solo what they're used to and the game is suddenly "forced grouping."

For any of my readers who are well educated on the matter of the combat changes - and I'm sure you all are - know that the first two claims, especially the latter is quite ridiculous.

When it comes to the first item, yes, Paladins, Necromancers and Guardians can no longer solo yellow and orange con mobs without any fear of death - and at times multiple of said cons and even heroics - but this doesn't mean soloing is dead.

For any scouts out there who solo know full well what I'm talking about here. Most of us (there are exceptions of course) have always had strong disadvantages against us when it came to soloing (namely not being able to take much above a white con). So with the buffs that we received - and yes we had nerfs too - our solo abilities increases to a "necessary level."

So on one hand you have scouts, such as myself, who understand this change as a positive because we're brought back into line and classes like the Paladin and Guardians are more or less nerfed down, soloing wise, to bring it back to a reasonable level.

All of this, every bit of it, comes right back to transition.

Paladins, Guardians, Warlocks, Necromancers, whoever, you can solo but not what you used to. You were never meant to take on yellow, orange or heaven forbid heroic mobs. But you can solo, bottom line.

There is also the comment that I listed before that the game is now "forced grouping." I've been playing the "new" EverQuest II for as long as all of you and I can tell you forced grouping is not evident. Quite simply because it wasn't patched in (and it never will be again).

The only reason we see the words "forced grouping" right now is because someone made it up as a tactic to gain more support from the "unsoloability" of the game now, which, as we have explored, is ridiculous.

Put aside the soloing aspect of the game, the transition, there is a couple other items that I've found incredibly beneficial since the live update went live. The first being changes to buffs and the second the speed of combat.

In addition to playing a Ranger I have a Halfing Bard (soon to be a Troubadours) and as we all know that class is heavily dependent on buffing (that's what we do). Previously, there was a number of spells that I'd have to sing or perform over and over again on a regular basis (which became redundant) but now they stick until canceled.

I'm sure, as well, this is the same across the board.

This is obviously something that is relatively small in the long run but one that will have a lasting effect and save my Bard a lot of needless headaches to say the least.

Combat speed is the other item I find to be very beneficial with the latest live update. For I have always enjoyed EverQuest II's combat system as it is deep and quite embedded with tactics. At the end of the day, if you wanted any success, you needed the right tactics and this is what MMORPG [combat systems] should be all about. This was also World of Warcraft's greatest mistake in my mind.

With all of that said, the speed of combat was often slow and tedious. Sure it was full of strategy but at times mind-numbingly boring because of how slow it was.

Not anymore.

What the developers have been able to pull off is a quick combat system, that isn't too fast, but requires the player to be on his or her heels to have success while at the same time require that player to invoke the proper strategy.

A difficult thing to do but they pulled it off.

I talked in my last article about a "new era in EverQuest II" and these changes are just the next step [in that]. One of the major problems I always find with MMORPGs is the tiresome task of class balance and SOE has finally solved that with EverQuest II. In the long run this means that we can focus on content without worrying too much about balance.

Over the next couple of weeks the transition is going to be difficult for both new players and veterans alike but we need to stick with it. Don't get frustrated, just keep trying new things. It will work.

The game is better as a result, after all.

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Posted by Prayerwarrior at 2005-09-16 01:46:47

Well ill have too agree with you. i was a littel set back at frist but i have found that guilds and solo peeps are trying there best at getting this down but i found that if you play the game like it was ment too you will have a good time . the thing of balaceing players has help me Pally who has three good friends that are rangers and one templer and found that are grouping has real benifits now. Plz everyone give it a try. and solo peep try grouping or stick too mobs you can handel.

Posted by Syreeia at 2005-09-16 05:59:07

I also agree. I am a Conjurere and a soloist and to begin I thought woah Im going to die against a blue con Was a bit upset but now I am getting used to the changes I am finding them all beneficial. Only thing I am a little peeved about still is that I did all my bonuses before trying out the new spells. If I could go back now I would change a couple of my choices now I know the differences. As for soloists grouping I certainly dont need to with the changes and neither should I have to. EQ2 is about all playing styles which is why they have made it more feasible for some scoutpriest classes to solo. Maybe now I will try another job--always fancied singing for a living

Posted by Anheg at 2005-09-16 06:51:07

I would agree qbout the bons spells. I ahd mine se up the way i liked them and tried to replicate my old bonuss . It seems though somehow i lost a 500hp heal. That really hurts.

Posted by Nebukadja at 2005-09-16 07:24:14

I do agree in most ways with hte original poster. However saying after 3 days live combat changes that everything is better than it was is just as dumb as saying it is worse than before patch. We just have to wait and see and experience the new combat changes in the next few weeksmonths to see if it al worked out as intended. And as a sidenote I can only speak for dirges. If you couldnot andor cant solo as a Dirge you should really change your tactics. Untill lvl 40 I had no adept 3 spell no legendary or better armor and I could easily solo the right mobs at the right times with the right strategy. After the patch I have to choose other mobs around to solo if I need but nevertheless I prefer grouping much more. Untill now I am positive about the new changes but it has it downsides also to wich I have to adept.

Posted by Korillion at 2005-09-16 08:42:51

Well i found most of the changes very usefull escept a few such as Avoidance being changed. As a cleric my ablitilty to some what avoid incoming combat was ok before the patch and i liked it. I was able to stand up at least to a foe and at least survive most of the time most of my time playing is spend in groups. Although now i cannot take on anything less then a green that is about 7 lvl beneath me because my avoidanee is so low it seems it is back to the Grind again of EQ1 which i found long and boring. When it comes to spells i believe now to at least take on a blue Con even with a group i will need at least a master 1 type spell to be effective in a group. I am not disappointed with many of the changes most are for the better but if you wish to succeed in keeping new players and old i would suggest to you that you fix the avoidance issues. I have spoken to alot of people in the past few days that are in a uproar about these two items spceificaly. I agree we should not have God-like stats but at least lets be reasonalble. If a character Tank class cannot avoid attacks from a blue Con or a green Con for that matter at least in some fashion he isnt a tank at all same goes for other classes they all seem to become One hit wonders and then you get a tells saying ohh ok rez pls is asked but the cleric is in the same boat one hit or so he is dead too. I have spend time in groups and have now heard the term wet paper tank LFG and it seem many of us players cannot fight effectively in a group because of these issues. Appease the masses and fix at least the avoidance problem or you will lose more then you gained

Posted by brumi at 2005-09-16 09:14:16

yah i agree y tehy did teh cahnges but teh lower fury healing spells way 2 low i didnt mien if teh lowered it i was taken on red mobes with now problem at all so it had made teh ame more fun but i still think they need 2 raise teh fury healer spells up a little becasue at lvl 35 my healing spell on heal 4 like 200 and thats way 2 low

Posted by Kalih at 2005-09-16 09:26:22

My impressions so far... 48th level monk love the changes. Shes actually fun to play now. Can solo fairly well havent tried many yellow cons though. 32nd level sk liking the changes so far need to test with her more. From what Ive seen of her available skills I like it though. I am concerned about her hp being lowered but her lifetaps were improved considerably. 23rd level necro propbably going to delete her. Adept 1 tank pet cant last through a blue con arrow down mob and my heal doesnt heal enough. Pet taunts rock now but its pretty bad when my monk can solo even cons with ease but a pet class can not. Even with master 2 defense buff for the pet its a struggle but its do-able. Just not fun. It doesnt help that she got 7 completely new spells that are all at app1. No one on my server is making the spells for a reasonable price yet though.

Posted by Caladinie at 2005-09-16 09:35:25

I think all in all the changes area a good thing. I play a Monk and after a day or so getting back into things I find myself almost up to the level I was although I did lose 20 avoidance. My GF plays a Swashy and was most disgruntled at the loss of the spell she used with her bow a recent expensive purchase and now almost redundant. She has had to buy a new range item to allow the multiple shot spell. So from her point the only downside was being left with an attuned item she no longer wanted. It might have been nice to have been offered the option to deattune.

Posted by suaren at 2005-09-16 09:45:27

My guy is a guardian and all i know is I couldnt beat the champion before and now i cant get to the champion in the SP solo arena.

Posted by NickWJM at 2005-09-16 09:51:46

I would agree that in many parts these changes were needed. Indeed as a paladin I have found soloing solo mobs I am no worse off although I seems a little slower but that should improve as i improve my tactics. My only disappointment is that many areas have now been changed to group areas by effectively placing many heroic mobs there e.g. Ferrott.

Posted by bouhhan at 2005-09-16 10:48:47

hi i play a 33 mystic on the bazaar server and 4 days after the patch here are my impressions. it seems very generally speaking that the classes have been specialized and that this would lean towards grouping. this is not a bad or a good thing but it does seem that this game is now about finding your niche knowing how to play your character and being the best at your specific job...kind of like life eh also...i can only speak for mystics but specific skills do seem to do a better job if you use them correctly. for example...i take a lot more aggro then i used to even before i do anything often now since the patch the tank will pull and mobs will come right for me but at the same time my quelling spells work very very well stunning the target and allowing me room to escape. likewise my heals and wards are not as powerful as they were at least at 33...dont know whats to come but they are more specialized ie. versus different types of damage so that allows me more strategy in choosing a correct heal or ward depending on the mob we are taking on. seems to me on the whole that eq2 has moved in a direction similar to that of checkers to chess and for a person who likes strategy over mindless violence that is a very very good thing...enjoy your ride. bo

Posted by Wolfrager at 2005-09-16 10:58:49

I think that the Changers will be for the Best. Over the Coming Weeks there will be Many Small changers and Tweaks.People Dont Like Change even i.Think everyone needs to Positive and Give SOE Positive FeedBack.....

Posted by ColdChill at 2005-09-16 11:03:02

I have a lvl 32 Brigand that solo with primarily. I love the Combat Changes. With my Ruse Master II ability I can do over 900 HP of damage with one hit. My DPS was always pretty good but because of my low HPs I had to finish off a mob very quick or Id risk being beaten to death. With the increase in HP that Brigades get now and the focus on DPS that the class has I can now take on some not all solo mobs that are 4 levels higher than me. Never could have dreamed of doing that before. Sometimes I can take on 2 mobs threes levels higher 3 mobs 2 levels higher and 4 mobs 1 levels higher. Now white cons and lower are a piece of cake as long as Im patient and let my Ruse become available has a 1 minute re-use timer As far as Im concerned they finally balance the scout class as a whole against the rest and made EQ2 even more fun than it already was. So to all you spoiled warriors out there...stop your crying and enjoy your character the way it should have been made to begin with you click I agree to the EULA everytime you play the game which says that you accept things may change. Well they have changed GO BRIGADES GO SCOUTS

Posted by User321 at 2005-09-16 11:23:33

Im an assassin. I cant move and shoot I have only 1 frontal ranged atk and it sucks. I had to evac out of harclaves on very difficult which i never have before. They nerfed me and Im not happy and I simply wont renew my acct when its up.

Posted by fomori at 2005-09-16 12:22:57

So far I do not see a problem with the combat changes. Then again I am a 44 SK and I am happy with my overall changes. It seems like the biggest whinners are those that are not playing EQII for fun but to powergame. They complain that they character was nerfed but give no logical reason as to why their class is no longer viable. They usually involve not being able to take a mob they were not intended to take on in the first place. That is not a nerf that is correcting a problem.

Posted by Slaas Quest'Alot at 2005-09-16 12:42:21

Dunno what the soloer Paladins are moaning about - they must be poor taticians - I am doing fine since the changes - can still take down whites and the odd yellow con - and the new con system is far more informative and realistic. WELL DONE SOE for once

Posted by Reaverwind at 2005-09-16 15:06:02

Have no problems with the combat changes - but the re-tiering of the zones. With the EXCEPTION of the new expansion area - zones are actually MORE difficult to navigate than they were at launch BEFORE any down-tiering was down. Extending con ranges increasing attack speed and aggro range of mobs as well as increasing the over-all numbers of heroics cant move without tripping over a heroic in some areas all contribute to the problem. Sony has sent the message loud and clear Casual players waste no money here - and I have heeded it.

Posted by at 2005-09-16 19:29:12

Spoken like a true scout one of the only classes to have an overall upgrade. Try being a paly and its not able ability to solo its about ability to tank and hold aggro. We will all deal but I think the truth will be looking back at the number of rangers and the number of paladins around in 3months compared to a week ago.

Posted by Nyvarsh at 2005-09-17 00:32:19

All this nonsense makes me happy my account expires on the 13th and I dont have to see any of it. Level 49 Zerk sigining off.

Posted by Bogstench at 2005-09-17 09:20:11

I have a lvl 40 pally and have to say I find it very hard to Tank now nei on impossible I also have a wizzy who has greatly improved at lvl33 I couldnt solo anymore so he had been parked in the caves tradeskillin for some time now I have recently let him out of the cage and thought Id give him a go and dam he realy rocks now just like he should Pallys arent supposed to be main tank which I guess is what has happened now all games a pally has and allways will be a wuss so now that this has been changed I realy wish I hadnt spent so much time with one. I will carry on playing but have to say that I am very disapointed aboutt his change it is a shame as there is a group of bogs and I was to be main tank well now that is out of the window so ............. the fight goes on. Good hunting all and stick with it.

Posted by Dursha at 2005-09-17 12:23:07

Im a casual player. I only play when I have the time and never for powerlvling or to be uber. I like to explore and check out the lands I adventure in. A few things about this upgrade I like but there are many more that I dont. One of the things I do like is the ability to heal people who are not in my group. I loved doing run-by heals in EQ1 and was mildly disappointed that you couldnt do that in almost any way here. I also like how some of my buffs I dont have to recast every 10 minutes but now those buffs are one person only. I can live with that though since I tend to spend my time either soloing or adventuring with my friend. Before the upgrade my 35 Fury could solo a blue con creature and just make it out of battle alive. Now she cant even handle a green creature in the lower level zones. They hit fast and she cant seem to avoid any attacks. Her focus is maxed but 8 times out of 10 she cant get a spell off and is forced to run before long. And because of the increased con range she cant explore without fear of being jumped by a large number of mobs. I hear how its all about strategy and tactics now and I have a problem with this. I have never been good with combat in any game but I could handle EQ2 before. Battle may have been a bit slow but that was fine with me. I didnt need to think fast or die which was good since Im not very quick on my feet deer caught in headlights is how I would describe myself. I guess things like the combat upgrade are more for the hard-core type gamers i.e. the ones who have more time to spend adapting or have quicker reflexes and a teeny tiny hint that the lightold players like me should do something else.

Posted by Enoa at 2005-09-17 13:45:38

29 templar casual player. I was a bit anno*beep* prior to the patch that things were a bit unmatched. I also noticed that as a healer in a group ... i didnt really need to do much healing. Now however it is the opposite In a full group of level 24-29 it was all i could do to keep that poor 24 guardian alive using all my power on each encounter fighting level 27 and 28 heroics. I like the changes but feel they made the game a bit too difficult. It would be nice to have a break between casting healing spells - so when the hammer comes up on the HO i can contribute by casting an offensive spell.

Posted by Azen at 2005-09-18 19:27:25

As a Level 50 guardian I can no longer hold a aggro useing every taunt I have... I feel that some of the changes may be good for the caster types but as a Guardian I know the days of a good raid are over as it was hard enough to keep aggro and do the job you needed to as this class.. Yes we were able to stand there a take a beating BUT isnt that the idea of a armor wearing sword swinging Class I am not extreamly happy with these changes as you all will find as you try to take on those NAMED mobs that nearly took down a full party in the first place.. I also play a level 49 Druid Fury and my heals no longer stack so much for the healing classes.. Thanks to this update things will turn as they did in eq1 certian classes will not be pla*beep* and decent raid parties will NOW be extreamly hard to come by...

Posted by crazzz at 2005-09-18 23:21:07

Iam beginning to like the new changes however They got rid of buff stacking which is fine to a point. My problem is there is no stacking at all.. I mean you end up gatting a ton of buffs and you can only use a few at the same time. I understand not stacking buffs of the same icons and things like that but when you have 2 totally different buffs and theyre cancelling eachother out you tend to wonder which ones actually work better especially when your in the heat of a battle and you need to actually take the time to try and read them quickly to save your butt before your killed.. All in all Im sure well all get used to the new changes and grow to love them its just gonna take some time.I do also like the fact that when you do buff now you can actually tell the difference way moreand see that they actually do something. Changes can be good or bad and we just have to at least take the time to give them a try before we make final decisions about them just cause were set in our ways..

Posted by ekrim at 2005-09-19 08:31:53

What is the point of a buff if you dont have to buff They could just incorporate the stat boosts into your character. Another point Yes you can say that some classes got increased damage and stufftweaked. But if all of the mobs are tweaked too then how can you call that an improvment Its still a nerf and for the paladins necromancers and druids its a super nerf because they cant do squat now. If you have to solo greens and blues as a general rule now its like an nba team having to play a college team just to get a win. You can lvl and lvl all you want but you never become powerful you are always reduced to this weakling having to get a gang to help you stand up to an equal lvl creature. The combat system seems kind of boring to me. Tanks sole role is to hold aggro Gee can you get any more boring and ludicrous. Kind of like asking a cop to go out there and fight crime without a gun. Just go out and get your a kicked and that is your role. What a joke. Why even have a sword at all just give me 8 taunts and two shields. Wizards arent much better. All i do is the same repetative thing root dot dot dot nuke nuke ever and over. There is only one stratagy and one role each can play. I think they should redo combat tactics and make it better than just a hold aggro and nuke from *beep* system. Something more inline with the old Dungeons and Dragons system maybe. Just wait until the bonus exp goes away and you will start to see the grind come back for everyone.

Posted by ekrim at 2005-09-19 08:42:21

How realistic is this aggro combat system anyways Any sentient creature would be able to distinguish who you should be attacking anyways. Hmm lets see should i attack and expend all my resources against the shiny guy in front of me yelling names and waving his shield around or the girly guy in the back lighting me on fire with some nukes No I think ill just claw and scratch this guy in front of me like a retard while I get obliterated. If i had a gunwould i be more worried about the guy who is fighting with me hand to hand or the other guy with a gun What is the point of the heroic system anyways. Why have something green be so tuff Why not just make him a higher lvl mob Seems pretty simple to me At least then hed be worth more exp then and make you feel better about your victory.

Posted by Daenearys at 2005-09-19 13:30:23

After the combat patch I hated my 23rd level necro. She couldnt solo blue arrow down single mobs without having to recast her tank pet at the end. That was faster and more mana efficient than healing it. adept 1 pet by the way tellurian recruit Then I hit level 24 and my new tank pet was considerably better even only at app3. I lucked upon a jasper with my higher level char and that pet went adept 3. Then things really changed. I cant solo heroics or anything with it but I wasnt supposed to be able to do that anyhow. But it holds great aggro and I can take out pairs of mobs again. Maybe trios if Im lucky. So if you are a pet class do the legwork and harvest for the rares for adept 3 pets. Made the nerf not really a nerf anymore. Otherwise the class will be weaker than it was. Personally with my adept 3 pet and master 2 lifetap Im good soloer again. And before anyone screams Its not fair I have to get rares it was always that way for pet classes. If you wanted to solo well you really needed the adept 3s. Now you have to have it.

Posted by Onegemini at 2005-10-05 03:09:16

I have been an avid player of EQ EQ2 and SWG. SWGs combat upgrade was definately a benefit. So many did not give it a chance. I was at first optimistic. I have been playing SWG since release. I was very accustomed to its combat system. I grew frustrated with it as I learned the new system. Once I did though I learned to enjoy it and am thankful I stuck it out. The changes to the armor professions and even the hot keys were all for the better. Now we no longer see everyone running around in Composite. You can mix professions and balance out avatars. The different combat moves now all have a use. Im tired of the whiners and haters. I am playing EQ2 again after a long break. The combat changes there are not as noticeable to me. I think it is working wonderfully. I can understand the frustration people feel. Stop crying though and instead learn to adapt to the changes.

Posted by Brontalemus at 2005-10-24 05:24:03

I have been with EQ since July of 1999 and with EQ2 since it started. Ive seen Sony make allot of mistakes but this combat change is by far the worst they have ever done. Before I go much further I do believe there needed to be combat changes to eliminate some of the stacking the ease that groups could kill red ultra heroic mobs and such and some class balancing specially for the scout classes. Therefore my comments do not take these changes into consideration since I am in total agreement with them. I play multiple characters including a ranger pally wizard guardian SK monk templar and inquisitor. The change have had a severe negative impact on all of the classes except the monk wizard and ranger. The mage is basically a wash she got more damage but the mobs are tougher. The monk is now a little better and the ranger got a major upgrade. Now for the downside I did a little study with my ranger and guardian both were level 20 at the time with roughly the same quality gear for their respective classes. I had them tank the exact same mobs. Note I said tank I did not use any of the Rangers sneak skills just waded into battle just like the guardian. Funny thing is I found out the Ranger is now a better tank than my guardian. If he had taunt he would be the perfect tank in the new EQ. This is not even the worse nerf. The cleric classes are now a job to play not fun at all. In a group environment hunting standard one arrow up heroic group mobs it is all I can do to keep the main tank alive and thats doing nothing at all but repeatedly hitting three different healing buttons. Forget any tougher mobs unless you have two healers in the group. I think the main thing about the changes is the game is no longer fun. I find myself playing EQ rather than EQ2 and I broke down and bought WoW. Both of these games are now more fun than EQ2 which is sad since EQ2 was my game of choice. The changes were needed to improve the game and make it more fun. All Sony did was take a good game and make a poor game out of it and drive people like me to their competition.