The New PvP

This question is very interesting and I've been split with those who spoke to me about this very issue. On the one hand I feel that the current system is good enough: EverQuest II is a player versus environment game (primarily) and we don't need an expanded player versus player system, just one that allows it. Others I've talked to want it expanded entirely to, by and large, appeal to more and more potential customers.

So what should be done and what could the developers possibly intend to do? Simply based on the fact that there is a poll on the official boards asking the player base on whether they want a new system gives credibility to the argument that the developers intend, with their customers consent, to build a new and better player versus player dynamic. What that could entail though is very interesting to say the least.

By and large most of the talk that I've seen (including on the official poll itself) has revolved around an "open" system of some sort. Now this could mean many different things but particularly what is an "open player versus player system?" Open to some may be what we see in games like Lineage II and Asheron's Call (1 and 2) on the Darktide server: kill anyone at anytime. At the same time others could say open is closer to World of Warcraft: kill the enemy at any time but only in specified zones. Both answers, however, are viable.

Interestingly enough both systems though viable, effective and well thought out (if you like that kind of thing) results in two completely different experiences. Even if I don't like to use these terms, player versus player veterans sum it up really well: one is hardcore the other are carebears. While I won't get into the debate of what is better than the other (I have better things to do with my time) but I will tackle a pertinent question for EverQuest II fans: which is more preferable in our game?

This is not an easy question to answer either, especially when you consider Freeport and Qeynos. If, for example, we were to include the "kill anyone anytime" system that would bode very well for Freeport: it goes in well with their philosophy. For, as we all know, Freeport is the "survival of the fittest", if we are to listen to the lore and yes, this does include "cutting the throat of those who are ahead of you." On the other hand this isn't the same for Qeynos: kill anyone at anytime wouldn't bode well there at all.

With that said, even before we talk about whether this new player versus player systems should be available on all servers, or just special rule sets, I am ready to dismiss it right away: there is simply no use for it, lore wise. This is exactly the reason why we will never see free for all player versus player servers in World of Warcraft: it just doesn't fit into the lore.

That leaves us then with the other system: kill anyone at anytime but only in specific zones. In this situation it alleviates all lore concerns about massacres in Qeynos and satisfies the Freeport crowd by allowing them to be cut-throat, back stabbers, just not in the city where the Overlord rules all. While I see that this is the much more viable, practical system of the two I still would not endorse it.

At this point I will put aside my opposition to any further player versus player system in EverQuest II. Given this, there is a system that I would endorse: faction versus faction player versus player system. Now, I admit, the title is a little mis-leading, it would be better to say Qeynos versus Freeport, to say the least.

There is one really strong item to keep in mind when we consider this kind of a system: the lore fits in really well. As we know from playing the game there is a natural rivalry between the two cities: Qeynos and Freeport. To say that both cities (and citizens) hate each other is an understatement. So, inevitably, to suggest that an open player versus player system would pit one city over the other, well, it makes a lot of sense. What could be further debated is whether it is truly open (kill the enemy anytime, anywhere) or just in specific zones. I would obviously favour the latter but by no means will I rule the former out. But I really don't want to spend the rest of my article talking about that.

I said earlier I will put aside my opposition to further player versus player but I will bring it back now: this game does not need any further player versus player besides what we currently have. This game, from day one, has been built on a strong foundation of player versus environment content. In fact, EverQuest II is the number one game out there for said content and that is what the player base wants. As much as some of you might not want to hear it, but I'll say it anyway, most of the player base does not want player versus player.

Put aside the players distaste for player versus player, no matter what system is brought into EverQuest II, because it is a primarily player versus environment game, MMORPGs that are focused on the player versus player aspect (like World of Warcraft, Lineage II, Dark Ages of Camelot) will always be superior. It just makes sense: EverQuest II's focus has been, and always will be on player versus enviornment.

To further this argument keep this one detail in mind: if most of the player base does not want to participate in player versus player, then who do you attempt to bring into the game to justify the time and resources put into this new system. The answer is simple and obvious: those who enjoy player versus player immensely. So now I ask: why would you want to go to an MMORPG that has an inferior player versus player system compared to other major titles. You wouldn't; this is the problem.

I don't know, you don't know, only the developers know how this player versus player system will play out and what the timetable is. I only hope that it's not a huge project, like the combat revamp that we experienced with the launch of the Desert of Flames. If it is then I'm afraid we will see a general negativity from the player base, diminishing returns when it comes to new customers and a deep feeling of regret for wasting so much time on something so few enjoy.

I won't pass judgment, I haven't here (or at least I don't intend to). But I sure hope, as I said, the new player versus player system isn't a huge under taking: more important things can be done.

«« Back to Main Editorial Page

Posted by Hogmo at 2005-10-19 14:39:02

you suck

Posted by phyche at 2005-10-19 15:50:33

Its called an mmoRPG What ever happened to role-playing PvP You cover that briefly with faction PvP but seem to dismiss it out of hand as a failed experiement. What happened to the guild wars concept from EQ1 Give the role-playing *community* a chance to do what they like to do role-play. Let the good vs evil guilds set up their own wars with their own rules. Lets see some good vs evil role playing action with something else besides rude. For most that role play its not about being 00br d00d with the most kills. Its about having your community create a story with a real conflict with other like minded players from the other side. This gives a chance for those people that want to PvP a chance to do that with other like-minded groups from the same community with rules of their own choosing. It gives a chance for a community of hugely imaginative people to write and create their own stories and plotlines. You have the thought that EQ2 PvP MUST be inferior to all other games in that area. Not true not true at all. Let the communites decide how they want to implement it. Have SOE listen to those communities in development process. I think youd be pleasantly surprised.

Posted by Ujiram at 2005-10-19 16:20:42

I personnaly think that the best would be to create servers that would be more a PvP like WoW to satisfy the player who want this type of game more than Player versus Environment and to improve a bit the EQII concept of the PvP qe already have like by adding more arenas in more accessible zones not only in DoF. I have not tried the arena yet cause I am currently level 36 and I have hard time just getting there. I dont really know the rules and the types of arena apart what I read on the net and what other players says of it. It doesnt seem that you can host your own arena with passwords to compete against certain groups or friends only. I think that it would be a great thing to add to improve the competition between the guilds because for now beside being the first guild to do something there is nothing you can really do to distinct your guild from other ones.

Posted by Jay at 2005-10-21 17:53:26

PvP seems to be a touchy subject in this community but I dont believe it need be so. Im speculating that those who are against implementing it dislike it because it may completely change the dynamic of how the game. A game is designed to be pla*beep* in a particular fashion. Anyone whos been playing long enough will have developed a feel for the game gotten used to the experience. Players dont like having the game mechanics altered after theyve invested so much time perfecting their style. Just look at the stir that DoF caused. I would support PvP but only if it sat completely on top of the current experience. If it was zone specific they would have to be brand new zones that never existed before. I dont want to be out harvesting and have some jerk be able to interrupt me.. that should NEVER be possible in any currently existing zone for any character at any level. If not new zones then perhaps people who go around smiting n00bz for fun could be arrested and brought up on charges. The victim would then get to choose the killers best piece of equipment from any slot hes got anywhere in the world. lol

Posted by Malignant at 2005-10-22 05:08:47

Brendan for gods sake man quit writing your articles in Notepad Formating is your friend. Your articles logic is sorely lacking. DAOC is the one MMO that has a proven PvP system alongside the core PvE system. Recall that at launch DAOC did not have RvR built in it was added later. EQ2 is 11 months old. Look at the lore and the mechanics of the game -- do you really think that PvP was not a core tenet of the game by the devs from the beginning That they did not intend to add PvP elements later on One look at the MMO industry trend shows that they MUST have taken PvP seriously and designed the game with the option being available for addition later. PvP in EQ1 failed for two reasons and the devs admitted as much 1 the game engine was not designed for any PvP making balance impossible -- they couldnt even balance the PvE game. 2 Death penalty was SEVERE. When death penalty is too severe people will avoid PvP conflict until they gain high levels and then will only seek out battles they can win because a loss is too painful defeating the point of PvP in the first place. With EQ2s painless death penalty system PvP will be a matter of respawning and returning to battle...encouraging people to engage in PvP and enjoy it like in FPS and strategy games. Lastly EQ2 can adopt an RvR style system like DAOC with Qeynos vs Freeport point system. PvP zones can be built separate from the existing PvE game totally voluntary and non-penalizing if you do not wish to parti*beep*te just like duels and Arena exists today. Very simple. DAOC has proven this works.

Posted by Baby-Face at 2005-10-25 23:51:48

Just go to mmochart.com and see the massive subscription rates to MMO games that give people the option to PvP. EQ2 can only increase its market share by introducing PvP EQ2 has a surpringly small share of the market which is amazing considering it has very good PvE content. If i was the CeO of SOE id be threatning to fire people if they didnt role out what the paying public so obviously want ASAP.

Posted by John_Blaze at 2005-11-14 02:31:45

hey man the only reason i came back to playing eq2 was because i heard that they were going to make pvp servers. They should make the pvp how they did in EQ1 it made the game alot more interesting and fun. PVE is boring as *beep*. I cannot stand to sit and kill some creature that does the same thing everytime over and over. IF doing so helped me upgrade and do more damage to kill another openent then i can handle the boring stuff.