PvP - How It Will Be

The Desert of Flames expansion is going to bring us many new experiences in the world of EverQuest II and none larger (in terms of popularity) then the advent of player versus player in the arenas of Maj'Dul. At the same time, this is a very trying time for the game.

Like any major system a game may employ, there are very high expectations for it. If, for example, one minor thing in the system - say the death penalty - isn't what people expect, then by and large the system will fail. So it is a very difficult time for the game but the developers will pull through, they have to.

Player versus player is not just a major addition, but it is a necessary addition. Whether you are for player versus player, or against it, one fact must be observed: player versus player is necessary. There is a significant portion of potential customers who enjoy it immensely and it is also a very thrilling and exciting game experience.

Though that is not saying enough.

Merely having player versus player is not enough, and World of Warcraft has proven that. For the longest time, the subscribers of that game had been pleading for meaningful player versus player (and they got it in the honor system and battlegrounds). Like World of Warcraft as well, EverQuest II has its bases covered.

Obviously in a game like EverQuest II you can't just throw in player versus player and if players want to become involved they can just flag themselves. No, that doesn't work. There is no meaningful combat in that. It is all just an endless stream of random killing.

The arenas though, will do the trick.

Without going into too much detail (no need to spoil anything) the arenas will provide meaningful challenge, in a wide variety of ways. Though, obviously, the focus is on group combat (one verse ones will only take you so far). Not only that but each "map" of the arena is arranged in such ways where all classes are viable and the challenges are real and exciting.

It ties into the player versus environment game as well.

Quite simply, fame and fortune can be won in the arena which will increase your faction standing in both NPC and PC crowds. Yes, my friends, we will all know who the "arena champions" are on our respective servers in the months that follow the Desert of Flames, namely through the EverQuest II players website.

It truly will be a fantastic experience.

The question though I often ponder is: will the arenas surpass World of Warcraft's battlegrounds?

World of Warcraft is always a hot topic, especially when it is discussed among EverQuest II subscribers (and the same can be said in the vice-versa scenario). Regardless, and even though battlegrounds have their faults, they are very well designed. A group of players, quite simply, have objectives to accomplish, towers and graveyards to take, and must work together to defeat the enemy.

Arenas will do this same thing, but in a different way.

Unfortunately, due to the design of battlegrounds, a number of NPCs are present to aid the players (also, if you're interested, when quests are completed some NPC groups become summonable for the respective players).

This is one of my major complaints about the system. I engage in player versus player to fight other players, not some scripted NPC.

Also, this is the one way where arenas will be superior.

There will be no need to take down towers or graveyards. There will be no need to fight against mindless NPC opponents. It will be you, against them, all players, looking for fame.

That is what will put the arenas over the top and making player versus player (by and large) more desirable than World of Warcraft's battleground system.

Let us not forget either that with the complex ranking and fame system that will be employed, and the fact that it's consensual, will make it so much more desirable to those who have been hesitant before. It will truly be an interesting experience.

Dueling

A new patch for dueling made its way to the test server recently and I have to say I was very impressed. I remember when dueling was first mentioned, which included normal death penalties, I was very much against it. I'm glad things have changed.

Not only now has the normal death penalty been removed but a very unique function has been added as well: wagers!

It strikes me as shocking that no other game has included the option of wagers in duels, and though this is a big step forward there is significant room for improvement.

Sure, allowing the combatants to wager money is nice but what about spectators? There is a large industry in the real world (yes that scary place) that thrives on this very thing. It certainly would be nice to see two very egoistic Guardians go at it and being able to bet one side over the other with friends.

We'll have to wait and see what happens.

All in all, player versus player is something that we can really look forward to in the realm of EverQuest II. A very unique and necessary dynamic is being added - among other things - which not only will attract more subscribers to the world of Norrath, but provide an alternate, and entertaining, form of advancement.

I can't wait, can you?

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Posted by Ktok at 2005-09-02 13:01:51

Ive seen a movie of an arena battle that was more or less a team deathmatch. It even had a first team to 50 kills rule. It really reminded me of my Quake days... very much excited about that.

Posted by Serapiss formerly of at 2005-09-02 14:35:05

Um this is dueling and not pvping. Dueling is being ready and pvp can happen at any time. Dueling is only a way to see how gimped your character really is and what classes needa nerf before the real mc coy arrives which is PVP servers. I dont plan to duel because its always going to be lop sided for casters and rogues. Put them in a pvp envoirment and they could be caught off guard and owned but someone of lower lvl gimped class and crappy gear ....because they are NOT ready. Bring pvp servers up asap because when another game comes out with a better pvp system than DAOC im gone only reason im still here is the HOPE of a few pvp servers. Anyone remember EQ one when Tallon Zek was brought online it was filled with 12 k ppl during prime time and crashed the server then they had to bring up vallon zek then later after crossteaming issues we got Sullon zek ect...so take note

Posted by Gespho at 2005-09-02 17:59:31

yea this isnt real pvp this is Dueling i want straight up raw PVP like Rallos Zek. Actually i wouldnt mind if they put out a server called Rallos Zek and it goes by the same rules. PvP anywhere but PoK and in death u recieve money 1 item from there corpse but not from bags.

Posted by Fizloki at 2005-09-02 20:33:25

Pvpers dont choose WoW over EQ2 because of the BGs. They pick WoW because WoW has dedicated open-pvp servers. Like my fellows noted above me Dueling and Arenas are not PVP. PVP is open and it has to exist as a part of the regular gaming world. However I do agree that if EQ2 ever comes out with PVP Ruleset Servers it will blow WoW away. WoW is a gankfest you kill someone over and over again as they just run from a graveyard 10 seconds away. There is no death penalty and there are no meaningful rewards. It is a PVP-lite the McDs of PVP and MMORPGS in general if you will. If EQ2 implements a PVP server in which there is a signficant but not too painful death penalty some sort of ranking rewards system and refrains from creating PoK-type safe zones the bane of EQ1 pvp... I can promise a significant jump in subscriptions. They better hurry though or Vangaurd is going to steal us first.

Posted by tomhall911 at 2005-09-03 04:20:14

I had to move from EQ2 to WoW when WoW first came out due to money reasons and i thought i was in heaven with all the pvp going around and wondering why EQ2 hadnt put this idea forward but now i have heard about desert of flame i am thrilled and now i am moving back to EQ2. WoW is sucky for levelling on pvp servers thats what i think the main issue is. You get ganked non-stop instead of being able to turn pvp combat on they should have been able to turn it off so in a way this arena system rules over WoW any day.

Posted by Ke'la at 2005-09-04 14:36:05

I dont understand the appeal of open PvP unless your a Greifer. However I got 2 Ideas of a way to make a safe lvling process while at the sametime offering Strair up PvP. First both cities are safe because the guards in the city are turned to lvl65everytime the Player lvl cap goes up so does this NamedHeroic MoBs and can PK and not just port you out of city. So IF you can avoidBeat the Guards you can kill all you want in the Oposing Cityhowever the Penelties are tripled and rewards doubled. Antonica and Comminlands also have roming and stationed guards that Protect Citizens of there respective citiesthey are agro to Opoisng Citizens these are slightly weaker as the best guards will protect the QueenOverlord say 62 Named Heroic. The main way to keep Griefers out is the Punishments and rewards for Griefing and Properplay respectivly. First the Rewards You get Renowenor whatever you want to call it for killing Players that are Color too you However you can only get renowen on a Player once every 15mins or so and like XP you get almost NO Renown for killing Blue and Green Players and get a HUGE amount of Renowen for killing Redsif you kill someone 10 lvls above youwithout help You get a Server anoucment AND Placement on eq2players. Now for the Penalties First Killing a Grey Player costs you renown if your renown becomes Significaly in the Negetive Bounties are placed on you that scale based on your lvl and Neg Renownbounties are Huge amounts of Renown Lots of Coin Possablity of a Drop of something the Griefer had Equiped at the start of the fight and ServerWebsite anoucement. If you go even deeper in neg renown you get NPC Gank squadeslvl66 Named Heroic after you. If this does not deture you then you can get banned. Renown both Neg and Positve does not decay but good LOGED INAlive behavere over a period of time does get the BountyReward Called off however the clock does not run for 5mins after a zone so you cant just hop zones to burn off the timer. Also if you where attacked and not the one attacking a grey toon You do NOT get Neg or Pos Renown. Lastly killing a Player more then 4 times in 30 minsnot from first kill.. from last kill gets you Neg Renown that Incresses after each new kill.

Posted by Kerst at 2005-09-04 15:28:50

I think that the PVP idea is ideal. However I think it should be in more of a guild minded setting. For example....Guild A declares a war on Guild B. So whenever a guild memnber from guild a sees a member from guild b its KILL ON SITE. This works because peopel choose to be in the guild and people cant randomly kill and anyone that doesnt want to be involved doesnt have to be.

Posted by Tcho Tcho at 2005-09-04 16:21:28

Arenas and dueling arent PvP. If I plan on driving my sword through your face getting permission first just isnt in the plan right The introduction of arenas and dueling to assess the need for specialized PvP rules and modifiers is a step in the right direction. But unless the leap is taken into open PvP rules I aint comin back to EQ. D

Posted by ahridor at 2005-09-04 21:37:17

ok sorry to ruin your ranting. But PvP means Player vs Player. Now there are different types of PvP. But if a player fights another player its PvP. So just shove it about Dueling not being PvP.

Posted by Telvos at 2005-09-05 00:38:26

I agree with Kerst as Ultima Online had guild wars as well as faction wars that worked rather nice. Players could Choose to enter a plane where it was raw PvP. In that realm XP from monsters was higher and loot often better than the non-PvP same went for harvesting. Perhaps in the PvP zone of Antonica or Nektulos you could get a higher chance of finding rare supplies mabye even a small chance at harvesting a buried peice of loot

Posted by Ribbitz at 2005-09-05 12:13:08

PvP versions of specific zones or a special PvP place would be silly. There is already a special PvP place its called the arena. Any attempt to add NPCs and make it a standard zone is just a rip off World of WarCraft. I believe the best thing that can be done is open PvP servers. Player vs Player combat will be watered down if it isnt available everywhere and anytime. Sullon Zek and Rallos Zek were quite entertaining even if the game was considerably unbalanced and prepared for PvP in that nature. Id like to see some raw PvP servers available for EQ2

Posted by Norhas at 2005-09-05 19:33:29

I think the arena is a great idea. It allows you to quest and adventure without the fear of someone 20 lvls above you running around outside of the city killing you every time you spawn and yelling pwned If I want to adventure and quest I can then when I feel like testing out my character against others I can trip over to the arena to have someone 20 lvls over me yell pwned -

Posted by Darthiir at 2005-09-05 21:48:26

Those saying that the only real pvp is unconsented are griefers. Not everyone has the time or inclination to train up and learn all the tactics of pvp. To even suggest unconsented pvp be added to any servers already in existance is utter nonsense. Now the server with open pvp that was suggested would be great. It would give those that want to fight other players for everything what they want without messing with those that dont.

Posted by Gespho at 2005-09-05 23:08:28

Vangaurd is going to steal us first. FIZLOKI is right if EQ2 doesnt come out with an awesome pvp server Vanguard is gonna get a huge chunk of audience it already has a huge network of fans. EQ2 still has a chance if they just open up and stop being narrow-minded. Vanguard has no zones and is going to offer full pvp with item looting. It will have few servers with different rule sets which is good more people to play with. EQ2 has tons of servers spreading the people it has thin... thats not smart. I wouldnt doubt if they have to combine a few servers in a year. Anyways they bring in pvp servers i know they wont lose as many customers as they would if they dont. They really need to think about that - cause i am 100 sure they could make pvp so sweet if they really wanted to.

Posted by Abar at 2005-09-06 12:24:28

The Arena is a fantastic idea. Solo or small groups pitted against each other in a controled environemtn has the potential to provide both chess-like strategy and all-out rage. Our guild is looking forward to this. Open PvP except on its own dedicated servers has zero appeal to us. A tip-of-the-hat to the Devs on this one. Nice work.

Posted by Fiercerage at 2005-09-06 13:42:01

Lets hope that EQ2s pvs.p doesnt have the same fate as City of Heroes. One thing I dont want to see is balance changes to the game just because of the arena. This had and is still happening in COH. It seems like a good idea as long as the devs have the right intentions in mind. Pvs.P is meant for an added bonus to the game it is not meant to be the game itself. So lets all hope its as good as they say.

Posted by Darthiir at 2005-09-06 19:00:43

Fiercerage I hope the same thing. All the so called fixes in COH Which were really just changes for pvp and COV pushed me away from it. And the devs over there actually had the nerve to say any changes needed for pvp wouldnt affect pve what a load. I trully hope the devs here distinguish between the two and stick to it.

Posted by Area Effect at 2005-09-08 09:53:10

Ok first off let me say that pvp in eq1 was fantastic I really enjo*beep* playing on rallos zek and I thought that regardless that there were griefers it was impossible to be a grifer and level or even play the game without getting killed wherever you went. The reason being that on rallos we had a great player base that 90 of people did not do any random killings and whenever someone jumped out of that circle and decided they wanted to do even 1 single random killing they were blacklisted by almost every guild on the server and was KOS. I know this from experience because I ventured to the dark side myself and it was VERY fun to be an outlaw and constantly on the run for your actions. Their was no problem with spawn camping on rallos zek if someone stole a spawn they would just be killed simple as that. This is why a pvp server should be optional it adds so much more fun to the game for people who want to play on the edge and want a more realistic game style. Instead of hack and slash monster sit wait rinse and repeat.

Posted by tony at 2005-10-25 12:27:33

Sorry I have to say but i had two check out pvp in WoW and I have to say I love it PLEASE Q2 bring to me what i found in WoW ill come back in a sec if you do it right youll gladly have my money

Posted by zach at 2005-12-01 15:51:43

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SONY IF YOU HEAR THIS PLEASE BRING PVP TO EQ2 I WILL GIVE U DOUBLES MY MONEY EVEN TRIPLES JUST MAKE SERVER FOR PVP PLEASEEEEE JUST PUT PVP ON EQ2 lol...

Posted by shrike1 at 2005-12-21 13:50:06

I think in the intrest of making the system more realistic all servers should be pvp or at least institute a city vs. city good vs. evil pvp system. After all good adn evil are just semantics if they cammot battle each other PVE can only entice one for so long. All servers should be pvp at least to an extent. Their are many options out there to explore such as making entire zones pvp or making a different set of zones to log to like antonica 2 for pvp players

Posted by jon at 2005-12-23 07:26:53

so then there is a pvp server on the xp pack or not

Posted by A at 2006-01-24 05:26:31

to right area effect i totally agree with u that sounds great. Something similar to lineage2 would be fantastic. where if you random killed u would face the consequences such as guards killing you when u go to enter town to buy gear craft etc.. and other high lvl players would KOS tag or something similar to hunter of goblins except at 1 kill renegade 2 random kills outlaw or something similar u can come up with. anyway im sure many people including myself would greatly appreciate this kind of gameplay. Bring a bit of meaning to assasin class... theres only so many times u can assinate a gnoll we need true combat to get a true feeling of accomplishment after slaying some *beep* who constantly kills randoms. oh yeah just thought of a new idea which hasnt been coverd yet.. depending on the amount of random kill.. on lower level or higher.. without consent affects the amount of items u drop when u die for example a serial noob killer with 10 random kills would drop sword armour and helm or something along those lines... thus increasing the desire for other high level characters to go hunt after these griefers... anyway please take note of my bad grammar spiel of *beep*. i know i am speaking for alot of gamers out there

Posted by caleb at 2006-03-09 19:03:51

Pvp is ok if you can take the freetard. Other than that i think it has its disadvantages and advantages. If you can take them you are fine but if you cant your *beep*ed man. Yes i love how it gives me so much exp but i hate when you want to lvl and you have this bad ass group then like one high lvl freetard comes atleast high enough where you cant take him. It sucks beacuse they disband and what happenes is that you get *beep*ed by getting debt and loose money but thats why you dont bring money.