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On Bounty Hunters and Jedi


On Bounty Hunters and Jedi

- Brenden "Magi" Gardner



I have spent much of the last two years covering Star Wars Galaxies and interestingly enough I have never touched on the Bounty Hunter versus Jedi debate. Perhaps it's because one of my former colleagues was very opinionated on this issue (a little biased too towards Bounty Hunters). Maybe not. With a couple of recent changes, however, I felt it is time to weigh in.

I would first like to preface the rest of this article by saying this: I am not a Bounty Hunter or Jedi and I have no plan to become either. Historically, as well, I've held little to no interest in becoming either profession. Also, before it is raised, no one I know are Jedi or Bounty Hunters and they also have no intention of becoming either.

With that out of the way the real issue can be tackled here.

First of all, let's look at this problem historically. The development team at SOE had originally planned for Jedi's to be rare, but that didn't work out (in fact early in the game no one could actually become Jedi, period). Slowly, but surely, changes were put in place which allowed for Jedi's to exist, although rare.

Ultimately this early stage of Jedi was ideal. Jedi's were extremely rare not only in the server's data, but in appearance as well. There was serious, harsh penalties to Jedi death: skill box losses. Put aside that, simply becoming a Jedi took a very, very long time.

But of course this system was deemed unfair, and rightfully so.

This system did appeal to the hardcore gamers and really only them. A casual players aspirations to become Jedi, even if they put in a lot of work, were almost nil. It simply was not going to happen.

So the system changed and although it still does not appeal to casual gamers fully, it did meet some of their concerns. Namely, the hill did not seem so large anymore, we were told how it was done, so now it was at least "possible" in everyone's eyes.

It really shows now: Jedi are everywhere.

I will not, in this editorial, raise complaints on how wrong this is, when you consider the time line, but keep in mind that Jedi are still difficult to attain. Yes, you see plenty but these are folks who have worked tremendously hard to get to where they are and by all means they deserve it.

Now onto Bounty Hunters.

I was around since the very beginning, since beta, and obviously launch. Back then, I did know Bounty Hunters and I know it was a long, frustrating experience sometimes getting all those skill boxes to reach Master Bounty Hunter.

However, that was then and this is now.

Put aside the "re-spec Bounty Hunters" (those who used the skill re-spec given after the combat upgrade) the profession just isn't all that hard these days to level up and reach Master. If I wanted to I could probably reach Master Bounty Hunter in a month or so without too many problems. A new player, perhaps, would take two or three months. No matter which number you use - even if it's longer, perhaps 6 months - one thing does remain: Jedi's worked harder for their profession.

Put aside my opinion that Bounty Hunters shouldn't be able to take bounties on Jedi (I'll save that argument for another day) players should be rewarded based on the amount of work that they put in. This is exactly the rationale in most MMORPGs with levels but more specifically raid loot. If you put in the hours to reach that level cap, or near it, then work yourself into a raiding guild, spend the hours organizing and then raiding, then you should be rewarded as such.

With all of that said, why should the Bounty Hunter be more effective [in combat] and have so many more pros then Jedi (read: high tier loot only available to them) when it only takes a much smaller amount of time to level?

I want to clarify something right now: contrary to what I just wrote, I don't believe Jedi deserve the best loot in the game (that is just unreasonable). Do I believe Jedi's should be the most powerful class in the game, within reason? Absolutely: they spent a year or more grinding out the character so they deserve some tangible advantage in return.

So do I favour the Jedi? I suppose. But I believe this is the only rational way to look at this enigma of a situation that still hasn't been addressed. I understand completely that there needs to be methods of keeping the Jedi population in check but what is in place right now doesn't seem to work, and there are a few reasons for that.

Since Jedi skill box loss was removed, the Jedi population has grown larger and larger. Subsequently the Bounty Hunter population has grown larger and larger. This situation has a major difficulty besides not keeping the Jedi population under control: it has the capability of turning a significant portion of the population into either Jedi's, or more likely, Bounty Hunters. Especially with the loot that Bounty Hunters are receiving these days. In addition, we still see a high Jedi population so that problem hasn't been addressed. Also strengthening Bounty Hunters, which seems to be common, isn't solving the problem either.

Perhaps Bounty Hunter's need new tools to cut down on the Jedi population. Who knows? But given the reason why skill box loss was removed [for Jedi's] don't count on any new tools in the foreseeable future.

Not only that but every second of every minute of every hour that Star Wars Galaxies runs on the servers the story of Star Wars is slowly being eroded. Yes, we must allow that there was in fact Jedi after the "Jedi purge" as illustrated in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith but they were in fact hiding, out of sight and not battling in the space ports of Theed and Coronet.

But is all of this bad?

I've heard discussions for months and months that the timeline of Star Wars Galaxies needs to move forward, which would solve the lore-breaking aspects of the current Jedi population. In accordance to the Expanded Universe, which most of you should be well versed in, there are plenty of Jedi and what we see is allowed. This is in fact one thing I wouldn't be surprised to see in the future, perhaps in the next two or three expansions.

Put aside the lore-breaking aspects that I have been so famously known for to defend there are ways to fix the whole Jedi versus Bounty Hunter debacle that is fair to all parties involved.

As I have stated before I believe work put in should equate reward received. With this in mind, there are ways to re-work the Bounty Hunter profession in order to allow what we're seeing [Jedi bounties], though this is most likely going to be unpopular. What I propose is to perhaps allow for Bounty Hunters to take Jedi missions only when they have put in sufficient work, relative to what a Jedi had to do.

So how is this done?

A long-winded "Bounty Hunter quest" perhaps is one way to answer it. Make it similar to a trials of such. First have the Bounty Hunters grind (and yes we love this word) for a year or so on NPC and eventually PC missions before Jedi missions open up. To me this, or something very similar, is the only way I can justify the Bounty Hunter's strength relative to that of the Jedi (which is a big problem still since the Bounty Hunter's have a distinct power advantage over the Jedi).

Though before we read into any of this in great length what needs to be focused on, in my mind, is for Jedi's to be balanced in proportion to Bounty Hunter's and I'm the wrong guy to ask about that. If it were up to me, Jedi's, not surprisingly, would be stronger than Bounty Hunters.

After all, wielding the lightsabre and controlling the force should give a distinct advantage, shouldn't it?



Posted by Razak at 2005-08-12 10:16:19
One thing that seems to be forgotten by the writer is that in fact Jedi SHOULD be for hardcore gamers only and not casual gamers. The greatest fault of this game is that it is Star Wars and because of that everyone wants to be a freaking jedi. I think that they were right in the first place not letting anyone know how and making em permadeath. It made them rare and hard to get I do think it would have happened eventually the problem I think SWG team had was that the few who were close quit because the game blew for reasons other than jedi so they felt they had to address it due to demand to see jedi. At any rate the problem isnt that there are too many bounty hunters which is what this article seems to insinuate. I agree that making bounty hunters more powerful isnt helping control the jedi po*beep*tion but neither would making bounty hunters as hard make as jedi. Bounty Hunters were never in short supply jedi are. Heck even in Eps 1-3 dont think the jedi po*beep*tion got so large that there was mostly jedi on the street as seems to be the case today. The truth of the matter that instead of finding new ways to limit bounty hunters maybe the best way to lower the po*beep*tion of jedi should be to find limit jedi Seems odd I know. I agree they should be the most powerful but they should also be the most risky and make the average player not like to play it for that reason. My idea is to institute permadeath. Most players wouldnt like the idea of losing their character so that may work. Plus then the jedi could be more powerful so that the few you see you may fear more.


Posted by LordRaven at 2005-08-14 09:43:44
I agree with some of the things in this article. I think that SOE need to limit the number of new Jedi poping up everyday. However this is all due to the dbl XP SOE was handing out like hard candy. They should have found another way to compensate for the servers downtime than dbl and in some cases quad XP. I personaly know at least 4 Jedi who would not even be close yet had there been no dbl and quad XP. I am also one who beni*beep*ed from the dbl XP. I play on bloodfin Since I came into this game my single goal was Jedi. After CU Bloodfin was given quad xp for a massive rollback that took place. Then during another SOE F-up we were given another dbl xp week. Then came the 2 year anniversary of SWG and we were given dbl xp again. I was not able to take advantage of the previous 2 times due to vaction during Quad XP and Space grinding during the first Dbl xp. The second Dbl XP week I took full advantage and grinded like a mad man. I was able to bank all the XP I needed for the rest of my branches which were 3 still needed. I then just had to wait for the unlocks. It would have probably taken me an extra 2 - 3 months to finsh the Jedi grind had it not been for the XP awards. With the recent Combat xp nerf SOE made a step in the right direction to keeping the Jedi pop down. The fact is most people are not going to maintain an MMORPG account forever. People change. Taste changes. There are many people that I know that came into the game with my same singular goal and decided they do not want to be a Jedi. Another thing that would keep Jedi rare would be to remove them from the GCW. Most of the Jedi sightings at least on my server are due to the massive PvP battles that take place. These wars are generaly fought by the Jedi who use non- jedi as cannon fodder. If the DEVs remove Jedi from being able to parti*beep*te in factional events this would probably cut down on the intreast in playing Jedi a great deal. Jedi should only be allowed to fight other Jedi and Bounty Hunters that attack them. The Devs need to make Jedi only content. Jedi should still be able to align with a faction so as not to completly remove them from the game but they should only be allowed to fight each other and NPCs. This would keep Jedi gank squads from running willie nilly through major NPC cities. Thus making it seem there are less Jedi than there really are. Jedi should still gain VIS and still be hunted by MBH for gaining VIS. Permadeath is dumb. That is why it was done away with in the first place. The XP loss is good enough of a deterant plus the forced PvP once you reach full template and become a knight. The game needs to add more content all around. It is pretty weak that every major publish deals with changing this about BH or that about Jedi.


Posted by Madaron Notleb at 2005-08-17 23:54:16
I do also agree with some of the points made.. I purchased 2 swg games 1 for myself and 1 for my son. This going just over 2 years We both have jedi paddys. My son did take advantage of the dlb xp and has completed his temp. BUT with the cu changing so much on jedi he will be redoing his temp This I find to be very heart wrenching. I have 17 skill points left not nearly enough to complete a good enough temp to stand up to any MBH MCM. I never had the chance to do dbl xp do to work We have very different temps I enjoy running and hinding while he would rather fight. Thus being said I just wish BH could hunt other prof I also think it would be cool if Jedi could hunt BH.. Remember folks it is a game we all pay to play.. Just some thoughts enjoy..


Posted by MBH_Talluin at 2005-08-19 08:58:57
It dismays me a great deal to see this article in defence of the po*beep*tion of Star Wars Galaxies. Jedi is THE alpha class why then should it be so easy to attain The article writer explains that becoming Jedi is a hard and arduous journey and that they have the right to effectively have god mode. Jedi effectively ruins this game from the get go SOE had it right but bowed to pressure from the wannabe jedi.. now the alpha class is by far the most hated profession in the game. Jedi have no place in ther GCW many times myself and some friends go overt its not long before were ganked by rampaging jedi it spoils my fun and im *beep* sure it spoils fun for everyone who would like to parti*beep*te in the GCW but dont because its just guaranteed to bring out the rare jedi. In an ideal world there would be no Jedi and no Bounty hunter professions we could get back to playing the game that has so much potential. The advert for the game says you can live in the star wars universe actually be a part of it sure you can but for how much longer will the paying customer tolerate the complete inadequacies of the game. Grind this grind that.. when youve got an uber template what next Jedi is the end game for most people they have nothing more to do other than PvP so it isnt the Jedis fault its the game developersan earlier poster stated that the Jedi should be removed from the GCW this would be a step in the right direction i miss the 30 per side battles a rallying call to all rebels..or imperials to defend the honour of whatever.... now the rallying call is to get as many jedi on your side to see who wins....it has destro*beep* many professions.


Posted by LaMontJB at 2006-05-29 20:14:15
What about making Jedi have tempadeath Instead of killing the Jedi completly it just takes a long time for that Jedi charecter to be pla*beep* again. Maybe they become a ghost for a week. Content could be added where ghosts could complete quests or mentor other Jedi to quicken the death. Then you wouldnt see them out in the streets every second and most likely players would use their alternates more. Just an idea. I also agree with having Jedi hunt BH.


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