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Casual vs. Hardcore - The Battle Rages in WoW


Casual vs. Hardcore - The Battle Rages in WoW

- Mogrin


Those of us who read the WoW official forums know that there is an ongoing battle between casual and hardcore players. Both sides have their whiners, their nutcases and their normal debaters who keep the argument intelligible.

The argument is that World of Warcraft was designed for casual gamers yet the end-game is all hardcore content. Casual gamers argue that past level 60, you cannot progress without spending obscene amounts of time in instances, raids, or farming materials/drops for either the Darkmoon Faire (new addition to the age-old argument) or an epic recipe. Here is where the argument gets a little shady on the casual end - there are plenty of instances that can be 5-manned (thus reducing the strain of having to gather 10-15 people for a raid) in around 2 hours. Even casual gamers can set aside 2 hours out of their day/week to go do an instance.

Another "request" by casual gamers is to have solo instances. "Make them super-hard!" they say, and yet that defeats the purpose of an instance doesn't it? Sure, it could be fun cleaving through elites on your own and getting those blue items without all the hassle, but do you really think Blizzard will give solo players the same blue (or sometimes purple) items that they give for 5-15 man groups? If they did make solo instances where blue/purple items dropped, it would have to be so hard that it would weeks and weeks to get it down pat. But even that doesn't work, because there will always be a class that's better at soloing (Hunters come to mind) and will blow by the instance much faster then other classes who rely on support (Priests, Warlocks and Mages despite their abilities would get cut down in a second). There would be mass complaints that certain classes had it easier in the solo dungeons and would ask for a change. The only logical change would be to add class-specific dungeons. Now you're asking for nine NEW INSTANCES that benefit only 1 player at a time, but now they can be balanced for the class and even have quests tied to them. Sure, that could be an idea, but again you are asking for good items to be more obtainable, rather then complaining that a person who can't play 2-3 hours at a time can never get them.

Casual gamers' motto is that they don't want items easier, they just want to be able to work towards them in pieces, so that if it takes 10 hours to get 1 set piece through quests or whatever, they can do the quests in pieces to eventually get the item, which is a very fair and valid request. However, their arguments seem to point out that solo instances would solve this, but in reality it goes back to square one - you're trivializing itemization in other instances. If class-specific solo instances were released and were made brutally hard, there would AGAIN be complaints because certain talent specs could run the instances better then others. People would be "forced" to switch talents to do them. And even if the instances were extremely difficult, one person could finish it, write a small guide on how to do it, and then voila - the entire *insert class here* community can now farm this instance for the drops they need.

However, I won't only knock on casual gamers for making their stupid requests - the hardcore fans are a bit defensive too. When certain people make posts about new casual content, the answer they receive from some hardcore fans is that pure time investment = items, and that skill should not factor into the equation. Hardcore players' biggest weakness is that their "uber-leetness" comes from the fact they play the game for many hours a day, every day. No matter what, they will always be able to reach the highest content and get the best items. Hardcore gamers have to appreciate MMO's are paid for by the customers monthly (and I mean a year of WoW is around $150) and are played by lots of different age groups. Lots of kids, lots of teenagers and even lots of adults. Lots of adults are married, have children, a full-time job and then obligations at home, but still find time to play this game, and you have to sympathize with them. If they work to level 60, over the time they get in a year and then want to continue progressing, they find that they can't and it's been one big tease.

The new "casual" raid instance Zul'Gurub is being released next content patch, and hopefully when details around that are released the casual players can breathe a sigh of relief and enjoy a smile of satisfaction, but you still need 20 strong players to venture into the raid zone, but ZG does offer a easier lockout timer and epic drops, so even that casual player can once in a while raid and try for that epic set.

The biggest problem with the battle is that the people arguing often don't bother empathize with each other. Casual gamers want good items but don't realize that their hardcore counter-parts have to raid many hours a day for many days to reach that epic set, while the hardcore players who want the epics to only belong to those with the most time probably don't realize people who cannot play the game for extended periods of time are missing out on fantastic raid zones, such as Onyxia, Molten Core and soon to be Zul'Gurub and after level 60 have nothing to do.

My answer to the casual gamers is that they do have content which they can complete past level 60 for their rare class set (Magister's, Devout, etc..) without having to spend 10 hours in a raid zone. UBRS, Scholomance, Dire Maul and Stratholme are all instances you can complete 5-manned (though difficult with some more than others) and retrieve your set pieces after many runs through a variation of those listed above. A casual player can set aside 2-3 hours on the weekend to run an instance, and perhaps in the meantime collect materials for that epic/blue recipe (Be it Hide of the Wild, Belt of the Archmage, Arcanite Reaper, etc..) or even the PvP enthusiasts can log into a few games of Warsong Gulch when they got 30-60 minutes on their hands.

The fact of the matter is that there is casual content (heck, level 1-60 is as casual is it gets) in the form of the instances ranked lower then Molten Core and Onyxia, but the inclusion of "skill-testing difficulty" is barren in WoW. There is nothing that really challenges your skill as a player, as a team or as a raid group. There is minimal strategy in Molten Core, and once you find the small trick, you can farm Ragnaros endlessly. My only personal request is that there should be more content that challenges your skill and reflexes rather then your time committed.



Posted by Lock at 2005-08-11 06:12:44
Just wondering what make a hunter better then a warlock in pve I imagine that tag of master of pve still hang on locks.


Posted by AnotherLock at 2005-08-11 06:56:48
My opinion is that the only chance are the PvP and BG faction rewards to get a half-descent set for casual gamers. A WG match takes about 30 mins to 2 hours max. Pretty casual IMHO. The new Arathi Bassin BG is supposed to be similar. Anyway the problem is the game devides not into levels but rather into levels and items. The gear collecting is only fun because it is incredibly hard. Skill and time is pretty much the same for many people. I would strongly disagree. I am a Warlock therefore I would like Solo Instances for my personal 60 life. At least something better than random world drops... Farming for that is just stupid. The idea of parts of getting an item is pretty well done with purchase of faction required stuff AVWG and soon AB WG factions. You can slowly very slowly increase the re*beep*tion and once you reach the level and can spare the coins you get your item. Money is very easy to farm with vendor junk something not only Chinese know. Problem solved ...


Posted by Ryoko at 2005-08-11 09:31:31
3 months at level 60 and still collecting raid points. Ive put in way too much time for the lack of items Ive received. Maybe the answer should be more short 40 man instances such as Onyxia that can be run more than once a week.


Posted by Trace at 2005-08-11 11:56:23
Yeah... but do you have any idea how many weekends casual gamers would have to spend in Strath Scholo etc. just to get 1 set piece


Posted by Casual at 2005-08-11 12:00:53
This editorial is no better than the forums for bias even going so far as to call casual gamers stupid. Too much focus on solo instances as an impossible solution for casuals and not enough alternative suggestions. I think the issue is between min maxers and the devoted. Perhaps what is needed is ultra hard epic raid method to get items like a 12 hour raid requiring the big guild organization... and then a much longer albeit easier series of 50 short quests to get the ingredients for the same item. Min maxers would take the shortest path - the 12 hour Raid. Devoted would take the long way - 50 hours of 1 hour quests which could be done duo or solo with lots of walking around between mission locations. Both wind up with the same item but the min maxer had an extra 38 hours to do other raids or get other items as well. This preserves the advantage the hardcore players prefer but still gives a method for the casuals to eventually get there.


Posted by Dissent at 2005-08-11 12:14:16
Agreed with Casuals first statement.. this is simply an extension of all the forum arguments that have been going on from a singular perspective rather than an attempt to take a relatively unbiased look at the two arguments. It can only serve to exacerbate the dispute further... Take it down


Posted by Mogrin at 2005-08-11 13:29:35
Biased hum I havent ran Molten Core once and Ive pla*beep* since beta2 and right at retail until now. I consdier myself casual during school. How many weekends do casual gamers need to get their class set Running about 3-5 instances per weekend myself during school months I got my set in around 1-2 months. Perhaps I was a bit harsh to call casual gamers stupid since I did not mean EVERY casual gamer playing WoW. There are a lot of casual gamers who are whining that they are not receiving epic items and are being locked out of raid content because tehy dont have enough time to complete it. These people are ignorant and have no place in the argument. Ill probably get 1 maybe 2 epic set pieces before summer is gone if I am lucky and then its back to levelling alts or perhaps getting some good blue items from the medium instances. ZulGurub will provide casual gamers with their desired epic items with a short lockout period and less amount of players to gather. Now that summer is here I can freely raid since I have a lot of time and I will try out MC and ZG before heading back to school. I dont think casual gamers should have epic pieces if they arent ready to commit some time to raiding. This is an editorial - I am looking at both perspectives as I see them since Ive been both a weekend instance-runner and now am beggining to raid with my rogue so this is what i see on my server. Perhaps its different with you and you have every right to disagree with what I say.


Posted by Delmarco at 2005-08-11 13:58:24
Having two kids and a crazy life I empathize with those seeking a casual experience in a game that so well rewards the hardcore player. Since I have no choice in the matter yet love WoW Ive had to invent various different ways to play the game in more manageable blocks. I havent nor may never hit Molten Core and I doubt Ill ever hit any realm rank other than Private. Yet theres still plenty to do. Ya just gotta know where to look. Hence I offer something I have been writing to address this issue httpwow.gamergod.comguide_endgame_one.cfmguide_id19


Posted by AlsoCasual at 2005-08-11 14:56:56
Feh. 1-60 is as casual as it gets My ass. 1-10 is as casual as it gets. The time investment per level in even in the twenties and thirties is too much for me also known as a casual gamer.


Posted by ENVi at 2005-08-11 16:08:01
Casual Gamers Guild Wars Too Much Time On Your Hand WoW Problem solved.


Posted by at 2005-08-11 16:47:58
Mirepoix This game is filled with casual content. Have you done every level 1-60 quest Have you levelled every class Have you tried both alliance and Horde Mastered every professions What casual gamers are really complaining about is not lack of content. What they really want is access to the same gear as raiders with a fraction of the time commitment. They say they just want the time commitment broken into smaller chunks. But if you did that the casual gamer will still be a year or more behind the hardcore raider in terms of gear.


Posted by Mogrin at 2005-08-12 14:42:39
AlsoCasual if you dont think 1-60 is casual then MMOs are not for you. WoW has one of the fastest levelling systems ever. Youd likely commit suicide trying to play Everquest or Lineage.


Posted by Garrum at 2005-08-16 10:38:36
I dont think casual gamers should have epic pieces if they arent ready to commit some time to raiding. Why Is your money worth more Why should people with more resposibilities than feeding the dog and taking out the trash be treated as a lower class of customer Yeah you pay the same amount of money as Little Jimmys Mom pays but since he munches on cupcakes and peanuts while playing all day and you work 8-10 he deserves better gear. That about sum up how you feel Mogrin Because its exactly how you sound. There should be alternative paths to gaining the most powerful items. The Alterac Valley re*beep*tion items are a step in the right direction. Now there just needs to be a way for folks that dont like PvP to get items of similar power. Not to mention that even the ones that do like PvP are out of luck as AV is a once in a blue moon occurance on some servers.


Posted by NumberNine at 2005-08-17 16:07:15
It all matters on what you call casual and hardcore. If you just play on weekends. i have no idea how you could Then thats casual. But it you play every day i would call that hardcore. I think you should have.....oo never mind ill confuse you all.


Posted by Down-Stonemaul at 2005-12-14 13:09:12
Im casual I love the game but I cant spend a four hour block uninterrupted to do MC. I have a 60 rogue. I have the typical casual gamer problem at 60 which is that there is no way to get gear higher than about level 50 without doing an instance and even the 5-man instances take 2 hours. Its not that I dont have 2 hours but what if I have to walk my dog or do my laundry or something - I basically have to make the other 4 guys wait while I do my real-life c*beep*s. I just cant play absolutely uninterrupted. I dont think soloable instances are necessarily the answer. What about the fact that there are no recipe weapons or armor higher than about level 50 that doesnt require MC materials to make I hve basically farmed my way through the highest leather armor I can make without materials from raid instances - so I have stormshrouddevilsaur sets which are about level 50. That is the best I will ever do. And as for swords or daggers you cant even get anything close to level 50 blue weapons with just recipes. You absolutely depend on instance drops. Im not saying I deserve the l33t epics that MC gives you I just want some decent blues in the mid to high 50s. Without doing an instance my best hope at a blue 50 is a 0.1 drop. And I have no chance at any weapon over level 55 at all. My other problem is that playing in small time increments pretty much gets you nowhere. Basically if I had a 4 hour block I could do a raid instance and end up with some really valuable stuff - not just epic drops but even expensive materials. But if all I can do is 4 seperate 1 hour playing sessions I cant get nearly as much value in that same 4 hours of playing. All I want is some way of out*beep*ing my rogue with a little bit more competitive gear through recipes or something. In the meantime I have been playing guild wars instead. One thing I can say about guild wars that I like they give you the ability to do instances with NPC henchmen so you dont have other people depending on you to play uninterrupted.


Posted by Down at 2005-12-14 13:12:36
This is the strictest profanity sensor I have ever seen. It sensored c h o r e s and o u t f i t t i n g


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